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Post by TRex on May 8, 2011 22:16:55 GMT -4
i wouldn't say that gustavo did anything considering he never really played at lewis and was kicked off of the team. i remember him at spanish river along with kyle friend. i always thought he had way more potential than friend, but from what i heard, he had a ton of attitude issues that held him back. what a waste of talent. and if you are talking about mark vanzwietten, i highly doubt that guy would have done well at the high level of ncaa indoor. he is a good beach player, but not big enough to do well in d1. there is a big difference hitting against a solo block on the beach and hitting against a huge double and even sometimes triple block indoors. and you definitely have to include evan in that group. he was a good player. i wouldn't say best in the nation, but a really strong player in his last season. Of course Evan, I did not mention him because he was already mentioned, he was an outstanding player coming out of college and had so much potential leaving for stanford and shined...There was alot of other players that have been a waste of talent but should not be mentioned, There have been atleast 4 players that have gone pro, and alot of players have gone to play in college as well
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Post by Pro Players on May 8, 2011 22:27:33 GMT -4
CJ Macias- Played in Spain, tore his shoulder, Graduated from IPFW Ricardo Diaz -Plays in Puerto Rico, graduated from Killian Fernando Bernal- Played in Switzerland, graduated from Coral Reef, Cardinal Stritch Evan Romero- Know he was close to going to play overseas, graduated from Pace, Stanford There are a couple really good players that are still currently playing in college as well...
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Post by pro really on May 8, 2011 23:00:48 GMT -4
just because a player is going over to europe does not mean they are playing pro ball. alot of those leagues are not pro leagues. only the top tier level of the countries are considered pro. it is just like these guys here who play beach and play the dig the beach tournaments and call themselves pros. i would hardly classify them as pros. that is just the same with those guys over there in europe doing the same. maybe it is safer to say that they are working their way to the pro level. for example, if you look up info on cj from this past season, he played in the 2nd division in spain. it looks as though they qualified for the 1st division because they won the 2nd division. i knew a lot of guys who went over there and were having to pay out of pocket to cover their expenses. and they were playing what they called "pro" ball. now, i myself would not call that pro ball. i would call guys like clay stanley and lloy ball who were making in the $600,000 range a pro player....and i would call guys who are in the lower pay grades, pro players as well. but i find it hard to call a guy who is making next to nothing and playing in an amateur division, a pro player. but i would call them doing something they love to do and money is obviously not their top motivator.
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Post by Correction on May 8, 2011 23:08:23 GMT -4
just because a player is going over to europe does not mean they are playing pro ball. alot of those leagues are not pro leagues. only the top tier level of the countries are considered pro. it is just like these guys here who play beach and play the dig the beach tournaments and call themselves pros. i would hardly classify them as pros. that is just the same with those guys over there in europe doing the same. maybe it is safer to say that they are working their way to the pro level. for example, if you look up info on cj from this past season, he played in the 2nd division in spain. it looks as though they qualified for the 1st division because they won the 2nd division. i knew a lot of guys who went over there and were having to pay out of pocket to cover their expenses. and they were playing what they called "pro" ball. now, i myself would not call that pro ball. i would call guys like clay stanley and lloy ball who were making in the $600,000 range a pro player....and i would call guys who are in the lower pay grades, pro players as well. but i find it hard to call a guy who is making next to nothing and playing in an amateur division, a pro player. but i would call them doing something they love to do and money is obviously not their top motivator. His team actually played in the first division this season(Guadalajara), his team got promoted the year before, how do I know that because one of my good friends who graduated from Ohio State played on that team before CJ arrived he was a setter, Now that kid plays in the first division of Switzerland same league that Bernal kid played, now you think they don't make alot, some teams over there give you alot besides money to cover expenses..pay for your flight out there, pay for your apartment, pay for your car, pay for your gym, pay for your meals, pay for your gear, plus a check on top of all that, it depends where you go, and yes they can be considered pro because the winner of leagues all qualify for the Europe League Championship Series, So your gonna knock on CJ saying that he didn't play pro give me a break dude, atleast those people got to the other side, don't knock on him, playing pro in europe is hard in itself if your american, alot of the USA national team players start small and eventually find better teams, sorry CJ played for the highest division in Spain, thats how they got more players from the US this year on that team...
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Post by Dnt Hate on May 8, 2011 23:19:11 GMT -4
just because a player is going over to europe does not mean they are playing pro ball. alot of those leagues are not pro leagues. only the top tier level of the countries are considered pro. it is just like these guys here who play beach and play the dig the beach tournaments and call themselves pros. i would hardly classify them as pros. that is just the same with those guys over there in europe doing the same. maybe it is safer to say that they are working their way to the pro level. for example, if you look up info on cj from this past season, he played in the 2nd division in spain. it looks as though they qualified for the 1st division because they won the 2nd division. i knew a lot of guys who went over there and were having to pay out of pocket to cover their expenses. and they were playing what they called "pro" ball. now, i myself would not call that pro ball. i would call guys like clay stanley and lloy ball who were making in the $600,000 range a pro player....and i would call guys who are in the lower pay grades, pro players as well. but i find it hard to call a guy who is making next to nothing and playing in an amateur division, a pro player. but i would call them doing something they love to do and money is obviously not their top motivator. His team actually played in the first division this season(Guadalajara), his team got promoted the year before, how do I know that because one of my good friends who graduated from Ohio State played on that team before CJ arrived he was a setter, Now that kid plays in the first division of Switzerland same league that Bernal kid played, now you think they don't make alot, some teams over there give you alot besides money to cover expenses..pay for your flight out there, pay for your apartment, pay for your car, pay for your gym, pay for your meals, pay for your gear, plus a check on top of all that, it depends where you go, and yes they can be considered pro because the winner of leagues all qualify for the Europe League Championship Series, So your gonna knock on CJ saying that he didn't play pro give me a break dude, atleast those people got to the other side, don't knock on him, playing pro in europe is hard in itself if your american, alot of the USA national team players start small and eventually find better teams, sorry CJ played for the highest division in Spain, thats how they got more players from the US this year on that team... Dnt Hate cause you never made it there, CJ played in Omonoia located in Cyprus, Leones de Ponce Voleibo in Puerto Rico and Guadalajara in Spain promoted to first division this year Fernando played 1st division team in Switzerland, PV Lugano Ricardo Diaz plays in Puerto Rico Evan last I heard is living in Stanford, but can easily go play profesional volleyball Do some better research before you knock on players that got a chance to go over seas
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Post by maybe on May 8, 2011 23:44:59 GMT -4
what about jack mitchell, Jm plummer, and carson? they are all starters on lindenwoods team that won nationals for NAIA either last year or the year before. and they went to the smis this year....i know its not D1 but NAIA is still a tough division with less regulations on the recruiting and money, schools like Park can be powerhouse teams with many international players...
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Post by YES on May 8, 2011 23:50:55 GMT -4
what about jack mitchell, Jm plummer, and carson? they are all starters on lindenwoods team that won nationals for NAIA either last year or the year before. and they went to the smis this year....i know its not D1 but NAIA is still a tough division with less regulations on the recruiting and money, schools like Park can be powerhouse teams with many international players... NAIA is not bad, look at California Baptist they recruit players as well from Europe, why do you think there so nasty every year, but Cap-Bap and Lindenwood are going NCAA now, Div 2...Lindenwood has always been a power in NAIA ball
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Post by LU on May 9, 2011 0:37:08 GMT -4
what about jack mitchell, Jm plummer, and carson? they are all starters on lindenwoods team that won nationals for NAIA either last year or the year before. and they went to the smis this year....i know its not D1 but NAIA is still a tough division with less regulations on the recruiting and money, schools like Park can be powerhouse teams with many international players... NAIA is not bad, look at California Baptist they recruit players as well from Europe, why do you think there so nasty every year, but Cap-Bap and Lindenwood are going NCAA now, Div 2...Lindenwood has always been a power in NAIA ball LU had another great season this year, they have a couple great players from Florida, They reached the semi-finals of the NAIA Tournament this year, They won the National Tournament in 2009 or 2008 if I am correct, Cal Bap won in 2010 and 2011.
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Post by maybe on May 9, 2011 0:59:39 GMT -4
NAIA is not bad, look at California Baptist they recruit players as well from Europe, why do you think there so nasty every year, but Cap-Bap and Lindenwood are going NCAA now, Div 2...Lindenwood has always been a power in NAIA ball LU had another great season this year, they have a couple great players from Florida, They reached the semi-finals of the NAIA Tournament this year, They won the National Tournament in 2009 or 2008 if I am correct, Cal Bap won in 2010 and 2011. exactly and 3 of the staters are from florida, and 2 of which from west palm.
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Post by Nice Cup on May 9, 2011 9:16:08 GMT -4
LU had another great season this year, they have a couple great players from Florida, They reached the semi-finals of the NAIA Tournament this year, They won the National Tournament in 2009 or 2008 if I am correct, Cal Bap won in 2010 and 2011. exactly and 3 of the staters are from florida, and 2 of which from west palm. To everyone that wants to rip on players or the talent in Florida, F-off, give credit to players for getting to where they got to, LU congrats again on another great season, I know some players there great program, to all others playing college or overseas keep doing your thing! Half these people are either a waste of talent, a has been, a fat lard who sits behind a screen all day and tries to rip into players, keep it up..hey the people that play dig the beach atleast there trying to get someone where as well, granted there is no AVP so its pretty hard to get to that status, Beach game in the USA is crap compared to Europe and to be in the FIVB you have to qualify and they only take around 4 US teams if I am correct..so to all you Haters... HAVE A NICE CUP OF SHUT THE F UCK UP!!
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Post by pro really on May 9, 2011 13:27:14 GMT -4
to correction, actually you are quite wrong about the league cj played in. you might want to check your "good buddy from ohio st." and his misinformation. it was the second division. you can ask him yourself and he will prove you wrong. you can even do a little research yourself on this thing called the world wide web. i was not knocking any of these guys, i was merely stating that i would not consider it pro. ask cj how much he made over there, i am sure you will be very surprised. the majority of the guys playing on the national team started off their careers making around the $50,000 mark. a guy like sean rooney came out of college making $200,000. a guy like matt anderson left college early to basically make the same contract that rooney made the season before. you guys have to understand that it is very hard to make in the pro vball world, especially these days. with the very very poor economy over in europe, a lot of guys would be lucky to even get paid. many teams in countries like greece or italy, struggle to pay their players. i have personally had a few friends who played there for top level teams, but they were short changed on their salaries. yes, they had their apartments, majority of meals, and cars taken care of, but when you are expecting $80,000 and only receive $15,000, you will be quite angry and disappointed with the situation. alot of times, there is no fixing the situation either due to the fact that the teams know they can pull a fast one over on foreigners, esp. americans. i have heard through the grapevine that even cj had some complications collecting his cash from cyprus. there are so many players losing good contracts to guys who live in that country and will play for a cheaper wage. this pushes the americans to settle for very weak salaries and will leave a bad taste in their mouths. a guy like robert tarr went to the middle east and collected some pretty nice loot, but he had to play in a horrible league. the uab league is very weak and the players even sometimes have had to play on outside tennis courts for matches. that to me is insane!
i have had many friends who have played in the swiss league and they themselves agreed that they would not consider it to be pro ball. when the majority of your teammates are working in other jobs or still going to college, it is hard to consider it pro ball. that is the case with most of those guys. when you make it to leagues like turkey, poland, greece, germany, italy, and russia, then the pro ball player can be considered a pro ball player.
and dnt hate, trust me, i have done my research. the puerto rican league closed its doors to the main talent who played there which were all of the foreigners. if you look back every year, the teams who did the best had the best foreigners. now they are trying to get their national team guys to come back and play in the league during the summer, but they will miss alot due to the world league. so the league has taken a huge turn for the worse. i would definitely not refer to it as a pro league. let's call it a developmental 3 month summer league. they also were lacking the funding to pay the foreigners their $20+ thousand salaries (that is for the good foreigners like paul lotmann, dave mckenzie, etc.)
i guess the whole interpretation of the word "pro" comes into effect. i compare it to the idea of a what we call a pro athlete over here in the us. granted, vball is a low man on the totem pole sport, guys and girls still make some nice livings off it. my idea of the pro players in vball are those who go over there and come back with their savings accounts much higher than when they left the states. to add, nice cup, you really need to grow up and learn a better way of expressing your words than to use language like that. this forum is for people to express their feelings on topics and even for facts about the topics. but when people like you chirp in with uneducated things like you included in your reply, then it really doesn't make your point valid. if you would have left out all the nonsense, people might respect your opinion a little more.
i tip my hat to the guys you all listed trying to make it over there. i wish them the best of luck in their quest to become pro vballers.
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Post by Fern on May 9, 2011 14:00:55 GMT -4
Everyone needs to take a chill pill everything I read is people talking smack, my name is Fernando(Fern) To agree with Pro-Really he is right about the swiss league its pretty nutsty, its a place to start your career but some teams have terrible ownership, yes the two teams I played for were first division teams, yes majority of the players lead other lives, exception of the top two teams in that league Lusanne and Awrswil (However its spelled) All the other teams have players that study and play or work and play and they practice a the most 4 times a week, it also depends on how much money a team has the first team I played for it was me and 3 brazilians that were the main volleyball players everyone else worked..we worked out in the mornings and practiced at night, also teams like to screw over americans and its a fight to get your money, it happens alot, Americans do settle for nuts, I know the all-american from Cal-State Northridge is stuck in a nuts hole team with other americans in Austria getting paid crap and having to share a house with 5 other people..theres alot that does not go noticed in leagues, the dark sides, alot of people make sacrifices to go play. who ever said my name I thank you, I am not playing anymore in Europe my father passed away so I am joining the Air Force, I still do coaching and help players get recruited to play in college because its hard for some people to get a chance, heck no one game me a chance, Pro-Really touched a lot of good points very strong points..I know the UAB league its trash but they just pay really well, I have heard bad things about that league..Rooney signed a monster contract out of college with skywalkers in Korea and Matt Anderson went there as well..
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Post by Fern on May 9, 2011 14:09:02 GMT -4
Everyone needs to take a chill pill everything I read is people talking smack, my name is Fernando(Fern) To agree with Pro-Really he is right about the swiss league its pretty nutsty, its a place to start your career but some teams have terrible ownership, yes the two teams I played for were first division teams, yes majority of the players lead other lives, exception of the top two teams in that league Lusanne and Awrswil (However its spelled) All the other teams have players that study and play or work and play and they practice a the most 4 times a week, it also depends on how much money a team has the first team I played for it was me and 3 brazilians that were the main volleyball players everyone else worked..we worked out in the mornings and practiced at night, also teams like to screw over americans and its a fight to get your money, it happens alot, Americans do settle for nuts, I know the all-american from Cal-State Northridge is stuck in a nuts hole team with other americans in Austria getting paid crap and having to share a house with 5 other people..theres alot that does not go noticed in leagues, the dark sides, alot of people make sacrifices to go play. who ever said my name I thank you, I am not playing anymore in Europe my father passed away so I am joining the Air Force, I still do coaching and help players get recruited to play in college because its hard for some people to get a chance, heck no one game me a chance, Pro-Really touched a lot of good points very strong points..I know the UAB league its trash but they just pay really well, I have heard bad things about that league..Rooney signed a monster contract out of college with skywalkers in Korea and Matt Anderson went there as well.. Greece and Italy are Notorious for screwing over players, Pro-Really can I ask who you are? You basically hit the jack pot with everything you stated...No idea why people come on here and talk a bunch of crap it kinda makes me mad how people can be so ignorant, The first team I played for the money I got was basically pocket money because half my stuff was covered although to get my check it was a mission and a half, my second team I didn't get any pay check but they paid for German Classes, Housing and all my meals, so it depends on the team, but most of the time you get screwed over, enough with people talking trash on here makes me sick, thank you Pro-Really touched some great points and I agree with 100 percent of what you said, glad someone said something before me...Swiss League is not that bad IF you play on the top 3 teams in that league, basically the teams that find them selves getting promoted sling shot back and forth between the NLB and LNA divisions because they don't have money, Volleyball in Switzerland is also not as Italy, France, Germany and Even Austria and Sweeden, some teams will find you jobs cause they don't have money to pay for you. -Fern
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Post by pro really on May 9, 2011 14:49:57 GMT -4
fern, it is nice to hear a first account of the details. i am an old timer who has been around the block a few times. i would rather keep my true identity anonymous if that is all right with you.
i am very sorry to hear about your father. i wish you the best of luck with your next endeavour and want to thank you ahead of time for the service you will give to our country.
it is tough to hear that is how players are being treated over there, but it is the cold hard truth. you never know what you are getting into and especially for guys coming out of college. the guys who have been in it for a bit at least know the typical signs to look out for. that is why it is good for any of you who one day try to get into the pro scene to ask around before you make a commitment. things like facebook make it so easy to check on the credibility of teams. just send a message to a guy who you heard played in that league or even on that particular team. and even for those of you who say "well isn't that the agent's job?" sorry to break your hearts, but the agents are just as shady as the teams. if anyone finds a quality agent, make sure you share it with the rest of the world, because i know a bunch of guys who tried them all.
i am sorry if before you all felt that i was knocking any of the players, but i was merely trying to open your eyes a bit. you folks need to really read the messages people send on here and not just take them personally. if someone comes at you with choice words, just shrug them off. everyone else can see that those people really are uneducated and not worth anyone's time.
good luck to you fern.
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Post by big fan on May 11, 2011 10:23:46 GMT -4
update: 5 teams in top 50
AMHS-13 Seminole Ridge-26 Columbus-33 Bishop Moore-39 Spanish River-44
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